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 IMPORTANT: Clanmeeting 
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Unread post Re: IMPORTANT: Clanmeeting
Wolfsbane wrote:
why is it nothing that can be fixed?
Can someone give me list of few names of theirs on our ts3?
Maybe i can help out? Did alot of diplomacy for other clans/guilds/forums :)

Yeah sorry, I meant can't haha. Don't know any of their names from the top of my head, but I haven't seen them on for over a day now... The issue here is that they seem to be unwilling to communicate with us.


24. Jul 2013, 01:10
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Unread post Re: IMPORTANT: Clanmeeting
During big changes, like when i changed website for my own guild in wow, i have found big dificoulties when it comes to obediance of members to join forums. So i whispered every single member, talked with him/her for at least 10-20 minutes, it gave me great results, when one of the leaders invests his time in members .

Now i'd like to talk with them, i mean how hard is it to get others to communicate, but than again i cant guarantee that they will fulfill the conditions i mentioned in one of the replies before .

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24. Jul 2013, 07:28
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Unread post Re: IMPORTANT: Clanmeeting
Ok, so here is my perspective on the whole thing:

1) I didnt inform you well enough? Well, i did inform you far in advance, yes, i didnt give many details, but on the other hand, nobody asked for them either. Its my first merge and i didnt really know what was expected from me so i did what i thought was just for both us, and the AVA clan. I figured that because of the new clanthing in AVA they would be at a massive loss when they would change their name, and that you guys could look the other way, and accept that fact. About 1 of us leading that clan, no, i dissagree. I want to make their leader a part of our chain of command. Much better. (we ARE lmao, not a 'normal' community so the 'normal' rules shouldnt apply to us, we have always done things different, lets keep that up).

2) Im a Diva? Explain that to me because i simply do not understand what you mean by this. (No, no sarcasm). Maybe this is a reflection of my 'disease'? I am currently undergoing heavy testing for autism/add/adhd etc because i seem to (amongst other things) process emotions allot different and i take a far more logical approach to everything then most other humans. This has always explained the differences between me and other ppl. Ppl seem to get mad at me fast, so im used to it, i just dont back down and sit back. Since from my experience in life, im usually correct since real emotion only stops once you sit back, and look at the logical side of things. On the other hand, not always, so i am always open to suggestions, just, in this case, i think you are all way too emotional about a little tiny detail. But hey, thats just me.

3) About them not talking to you on TS and ignoring you (apperently). Thats funny... cuz i see what, 2 new members from war thunder on TS every now and then? Do they introduce themselves to me or any other member? No! Offcourse not. Am i making a problem out of that? Nope, and you know why? I for one can understand the situation both the War Thunder and AVA players are in. And i dont think i have to explain how humans act when they just joined a new group, and they are under no immediate pressure to introduce themselves (And i refuse to apply any pressure, since that is just plain wrong, and NOT what LmAo is about). For the AVA members, their leader, the 1 who made the decision, is still offline due to RL issues. Something to do with severe illness if i heard correctly. So the AVA clan is now on our TS, some DO read forums, just dont reply or post yet (and who can blame them, the only thing they read is bad things being said about them) and that all without their own leader and they have already accepted me as a leader position. Much has been accomplished in a relatively short amount of time. And some leniency would be much appreciated.

4) I jumped to MC? Dont think im abandoning AVA. The only reason im on MC allot atm is because the oppertunity presented itself to start a server. Since their has ALWAYS been interest in this, i couldnt resist, and i dont think you can blame me. Its another good thing for the clan if we can keep it up and running, and another service we can provide our members.


Look, i completely understand how you feel, but i do notice you guys displaying the same behavior and yet, expecting others to do better. I remember a bunch of our currently most active folks being extremely shy in the beginning, not even talking in the TS channels the first 2 months and not even subscribing to our forums let alone join another room of a game they dont play just to say hello. And look at those guys now! You guys are complaining too much about things you yourself didnt/wouldnt do and that bothers me. I know, i probably do the same thing, but when i do, i wish i could expect others to notify me. Just like you calling me a Diva. I wish to know what that means, since i dont notice this myself in my behavior. So explain pls and i will listen and think about it, and i ask you to do the same.


Oh, and btw Nightfly, it didnt fall onto deaf ears, i understand, i just completely, and utterly do not agree with the way you guys reason.


Last edited by Malfunction on 24. Jul 2013, 08:47, edited 3 times in total.

24. Jul 2013, 08:35
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Unread post Re: IMPORTANT: Clanmeeting
Wolfsbane wrote:
During big changes, like when i changed website for my own guild in wow, i have found big dificoulties when it comes to obediance of members to join forums. So i whispered every single member, talked with him/her for at least 10-20 minutes, it gave me great results, when one of the leaders invests his time in members .

Now i'd like to talk with them, i mean how hard is it to get others to communicate, but than again i cant guarantee that they will fulfill the conditions i mentioned in one of the replies before .



And this is what i mean by human nature, you make an effort to connect to new ppl and get them to go on forums and therefor circumventing the normal response any human would have when joining a new group. Especially when this isnt in a physical way, communication over VOIP or phone is allot different, since there is less pressure. This is the exact reason why i ask our older lmao members to make more of an effort. Make them feel welcome, and you will see a change very fast. Yes, i know that some of you guys already tried, but dont give up pls.


24. Jul 2013, 08:37
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Unread post Re: IMPORTANT: Clanmeeting
First of all,
If i have insulted you, or members that joined us and that are reading forums, i am utterly sorry ,my intentions were NOT to cause such thing.
Now, that being said.
post2225.html#p2225
Me, wanting to know more about warz .
same post
Me, asking if they will take our name

Yes, in that post i have focused on that warz clan, (not sure if same clan as the ava one) but same things i asked about warz clan or warz server applys to ava clan...

general-forum-f22/final-try-for-saving-lmao-t232-7.html
I was really interested in helping you, but for some reason, it appears that only Psycon trusts me enough to ask for help when he needs it, im glad of it cuz i really do wish to help if i can.

Note, my quote:
Quote:
And more ,what ever you need, i might be able to help, so just ask, maybe i can do exactly that :)
And would like to mention that i am not yet home, so there might be some delay in my participation :) but as i have said on top of this topic, i am more than willing to help :)


You thanked me in next reply, but yet, i said that i know a lot of things when it comes to internet but you knew that i know alot about all this gaming stuff... Why didn't you ask me for advice...

So:
" Its my first merge and i didnt really know what was expected from me so i did what i thought was just for both us, and the AVA clan."
Is not taken into consideration.


"we ARE lmao, not a 'normal' community so the 'normal' rules shouldnt apply to us, we have always done things different, lets keep that up"
I would like you to give me a definition of a thing called 'not normal community' and is connected with us ,as in 'lmao community'.


" I want to make their leader a part of our chain of command. Much better."
I agree to this, but only as long as he is very active on our forums, ts3 and is very easily contacted.


Statement number 2 is not for me :)

Statement number 3!
Whoa, that's a big one.
I do know more than few active members that joined after me, and have introduced to me , i also know a lot of introducement posts :)
Cuz of forum, i also play lol with some of the members and other games...See ,most of them talk...but srsly out of 50 members in that clan, not a single word to forums...That's kinda not fair...

Hope i get your concious to work, if you read this post -puppy face- (goes to new fellas that came with clan merge).

4th is not for me..

And for last part of text, again, feel free to consult me :)



::: EDIT :::
I also wish to explain that, name doesnt matter, nothing matters, EXCEPT FORUMS....If they use our forums, for their ava thingies, and our ts3 for their ava thingies, they ARE part of our community, no matter what they are called...

IF ANYONE FROM THAT AVA CLAN IS READING THIS, ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS TO BE ACTIVE ON FORUMS :)


Approved by lmao Commoner :)

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24. Jul 2013, 08:52
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Unread post Re: IMPORTANT: Clanmeeting
Wolfsbane wrote:
First of all,
If i have insulted you, or members that joined us and that are reading forums, i am utterly sorry ,my intentions were NOT to cause such thing.
Now, that being said.
post2225.html#p2225
Me, wanting to know more about warz .
same post
Me, asking if they will take our name

Yes, in that post i have focused on that warz clan, (not sure if same clan as the ava one) but same things i asked about warz clan or warz server applys to ava clan...

general-forum-f22/final-try-for-saving-lmao-t232-7.html
I was really interested in helping you, but for some reason, it appears that only Psycon trusts me enough to ask for help when he needs it, im glad of it cuz i really do wish to help if i can.

Note, my quote:
Quote:
And more ,what ever you need, i might be able to help, so just ask, maybe i can do exactly that :)
And would like to mention that i am not yet home, so there might be some delay in my participation :) but as i have said on top of this topic, i am more than willing to help :)


You thanked me in next reply, but yet, i said that i know a lot of things when it comes to internet but you knew that i know alot about all this gaming stuff... Why didn't you ask me for advice...

So:
" Its my first merge and i didnt really know what was expected from me so i did what i thought was just for both us, and the AVA clan."
Is not taken into consideration.


"we ARE lmao, not a 'normal' community so the 'normal' rules shouldnt apply to us, we have always done things different, lets keep that up"
I would like you to give me a definition of a thing called 'not normal community' and is connected with us ,as in 'lmao community'.


" I want to make their leader a part of our chain of command. Much better."
I agree to this, but only as long as he is very active on our forums, ts3 and is very easily contacted.


Statement number 2 is not for me :)

Statement number 3!
Whoa, that's a big one.
I do know more than few active members that joined after me, and have introduced to me , i also know a lot of introducement posts :)
Cuz of forum, i also play lol with some of the members and other games...See ,most of them talk...but srsly out of 50 members in that clan, not a single word to forums...That's kinda not fair...

Hope i get your concious to work, if you read this post -puppy face- (goes to new fellas that came with clan merge).

4th is not for me..

And for last part of text, again, feel free to consult me :)




Well, its as you said: 'feel free to ask me for help' Sure thing, i just figured i didnt need any. Its all very logical, and simple, and only as complicated as ppl want to make it. Has nothing to do with trust, since i trust many ppl in LmAo, i just dont really ask for help, like, at all. Never really needed to neither, its kinda an issue with i have, working on it.

The thing i said about first merge for me, i didnt know what was expected, ergo: the forum post. I figured i would give everybody a chance to give their oppinion and feedback, and i took it all into consideration. My only mistake (in my eyes) is failing to look at it from others perspective, but i know i cannot do this, because of the whole emotion/logical thing. It has already led to even me having vicious fights with my mother etc, i simple am not capable.

About lmao being different. There is no definition of this, thats the beauty. I wanted LmAo to be like water, flowing, depending on its members wishes. So, there cannot be a definition since its always changing, adapting going with the flow. And now ppl, please dont say: where is that now? we are complaining and we arent heard! like i said, ur heard, im just stalling atm and trying to make you understand the simplicity of the situation, and what i view to be your mistake. Am i mistaken in doing so? Maybe, but thats the thing, it can only be proven with time. These things cannot be rushed, no matter how much you wish for it.

No word on the forums, i can understand this. We always had an issue getting ppl to go on forums, since the beginning, and even now, we still do. I mean, look at war thunder. I dont know if the recruiting of 50 all ppl there is actually true, but i dont see them posting on the forums. Yet, Gamble gets renowned for his recruitment efforts. Anyway, there are always allot of ppl who dont want to do forums, who either dont see the use of them, dont want to, or simply never even tried. You call it not fair, i call it logical. These things take time, force them, and you will only piss ppl off. And again, this is not the LmAo way. We have always had patience and understanding and asking as less as possible from our members. Ive been away for a while, but i am getting the impression this vision has gone lost. A shame in my mind, since this is what LmAo is founded on.




All in all, what pisses me off the most is the fact that IF these guys where to have merged, and would have had the LmAo name. Them not talking to you on TS OR using our forums wouldnt have been such an issue. Since the name is what kicked this discussion off, and then, and only then are other things taken into considiration. Looking back its easy to say that i am wrong in this, but think about that statement before you go emotional on it and respond. Human nature is a bitch, and i understand you probably dont agree with this (yet). But set emotion aside, and look at pure logic, and you also will come to the same conclusion.


Unlike wolf says i do not appologize if i have offended you in any way. 1 thing i learned in life, if you feel offended by somebodys actions, then take a look at why and what you are offended by. Most of the time you will come to realize you are the 1 who made a mistake. Granted, the other party probably also made mistakes, but shouldnt you always strife to be a better/the better person? I understand i did make mistakes, and i apologize for them. But in some things, i am correct. I hope you can see that.


24. Jul 2013, 09:10
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Unread post Re: IMPORTANT: Clanmeeting
Guys, seriously, you're talking about this for weeks already. And i admit, i haven't completely read everything, due to lacking time and nerves for it, but to me it still seems like it's the same shit as 2 or 3 weeks ago. Merely the clan tag thingy appears to be muted by now, but i doubt it's already changed as it should be according to this.
Now, this was the first time doing a merge like this, so ofc there might be problems and with their leader being ill, it's getting even harder. But how about just accept that this didnt go as many of u had wished and learn from it now that everybody spoke their mind, telling us what went wrong? Next time when doing something like this, just consider wolfbane's list, cus it seems reasonable and ordered to me.

Wolfsbane wrote:
E.G.
2 clans merging clan A and clan B.
-ingame Name:Clan A keeps
-Website:Clan b keeps
-Team speak:TS3 from clan B
-Ingame clan:Clan A keeps
-Community name:Clan B keeps
-Clan A members join all clan Bs out of game commnity content
-Clan B members join all clan As in game events and their own events (a.k.a. Events are for both,always,no separation)

Which in this context we are Clan B and they are CLan A
In some time this would become a common sense to all members, thread would be left as sticky just in case for say 1 month... and than it would all be normal...

You can not start such deals just on matter of trust...He told you OK on skype...You need to have exact ruleset of merging before it is done. And than if one fails to fulfill it , other breaks the relationship between two.



Shouldn't be all too difficult, is it?

Now about their participation in community-related activities such as the forums and teamspeak, it certainly is true, that they NEED to use our forums, not just some of them, all of them. I don't expect them to reply to every single topic, reading it should already be enough..But when it's about stuff which is directly related to them, like that thread made by Gamble or somebody for them to state their position about the whole situation, without being prejudiced towards them, then i'm wondering why they don't just say something there? I guess we're all mature enough to respect each other's opinion and not be either offended by it, or offend them for having that opinion.
But then, when it comes to teamspeak stuff, if i may quote Gamble, TAKE THE FUCKING INITIATIVE! Not just once. Cus when Malf made Dreamer's leader a teamspeak admin and some of their clan members jioned teamspeak as well, i actually had a nice chat with them, altho i was typing.
And why not just taking the initiative once? Well yea, cus u can't expect people to be actually there all the time, not just getting some meal or taking a piss or shit like that. And i'm pretty sure one out of 3 or 4 times, u will get a response and u can have a nice talk with them. If not, then yea, u got good reason to complain about that.

Greets

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24. Jul 2013, 09:23
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